The Point System
Because the Terri Schiavo case was such a deplorable freak show -- complete with vainglorious politicians strutting around presuming themselves endowed with the power to make life and death choices for the rest of us -- Fred Thompson just earned half a point in my book for his refusal to cow to the so called values voters. He would have earned a full point had he simply taken a firm stand instead of hemming and hawing his response.
posted by Logic101 at 10/22/2007 07:38:00 PM
10 Comments:
Hey Cousin,
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your banter with eagle-eyed milton a couple of days ago on the religion of our shallow presidential pool. Living where I do, I get to interface with the Mormans usually once a month and the Evangelicals are out in full force evey day.... so I have had to study up on their histories to know where I can trip them up when they come knocking on my door trying to convert my heathen soul.
I gotta give ole Mitt some credit, it takes some stones to follow a religion, to put the fate of your immortal soul, that is based on the word of a known, if not convicted, con-artist/grifter. Thats right, Mr Joseph Smith, founder of the Morman religion was run out of several towns, counties, and states for pulling con jobs on the poor unsuspecting public in the hopes of seperating them from their money. He finally ended up in Illinois when he started the Morman prapoganga and the Jim Jones like brainwashing to follow him west.... away from the long arm of the law. There is more but I'll quit boring you for now, but if you ever want to know the main power point presentation on what the Mormans believe and makes them different from other Christians and how to trip them up on their beliefs, just ask and I shall be more than happy to ramble on some more. LOL Talk with you soon Cuz.
Matthew
Hi Matthew!
Mormans in Texas? Egads, man... I had no idea!
Somehow I can picture you laying in ambush with a Bible in one hand and the Book of Mormon in the other, hoping to trip up some shiny faced young Mormon who is likewise hoping you will see the light. I can imagine the sweat forming on his forehead as you relentlessly decimate the core of his beliefs, his tidy white short sleeved shirt becoming damp under the arms and his little black tie suddenly feeling like a noose as you insist that the prophet Joseph Smith was not only a fraud but also a criminal. In my imaginings you look like the Grinch and the missionary looks like Cindy Lou Who.
(haha!)
My knowledge of Mormans is limited to the ton of time I spent in the Morman church with my neighbors (as a guest). I loved it as a kid, especially the grape juice and bread appetizer they served during Sunday service at about the time of the morning I was starting to think about breakfast. In the memories of my youth they seemed like good people. No crazy underwear, to my knowledge, but they did have a kick ass mini-pool they used for baptisms.
I'm sure the book of Mormon is as odd as the rest of their history but I do love the idea of Jesus having hung out with the American Indians... I mean, how cool is that?? Jesus was practically American!
p.s. Of course you are invited to ramble... that's the whole purpose of this site!
BINGO!!!
You have hit the main reason the Morman faith can not be tolerated by the main stream Christians... ie, Evangelicals, Baptists, Catholics and all the rest. The idea of Jesus being in America after his death and reserection. If it is true that Jesus was here preaching Christianity before Lief Erikson or Columbus brought diesease and enslavement to the fair shores of 'Turtle Island' or America, THEN Manifest Destiny was not just the taking of wealth from heathens as a gift to Jesus but massive genocide by God loving Christians. Genocide of such a large number that Darfur pales in comparison. Imagine knowingly giving infected small pox blankets to Jesus's chosen, the long marches endured by the Cherokee and the Navajo with no shoes no protection from the elements of nature.... almost like the walk with the cross by Jesus himself. NO, NO NO.... That is to much of a black eye for Christians to even try to invision.
But then again this is where I trip up the Mormans who have never given me a reasonable answer. There have only been a couple American Indians who spoke of seeing a Jesus Like vision in their dreams and even then he was mostly telling them of a profecy of ' bearded ones with white skin with numbers like grains of sand' coming to their land. It's not really clear if the visions happened before the first conquistadors had landed in America. The Mormans insist the Joseph Smith had WRITTEN proof that Jesus had visited America after his death, that the Indians had recorded his visits in writing and ole Joseph had found these written documents. MY QUESTION to the Mormans is ' What Written Documents?' The Indians had NO written language til after settlers had come to America. In fact the first written Indian language was Cherokee after the Cherokees had learned to read the english language they went about inventing their own alphabet and language. This stumps most Mormans but some will insist that there were Indian cultures in the Americas that did have a written language, unfortunitly those cultures were in central America with the Mayans and maybe South America with the Incas... and to my knowledge Mr. Smith never visited either place... so he had no access to any written documents in New England or thru the Ohio valley on into Illinois. The con artist strikes again ( in my opinion). The Mormans tell you all the answers to your questions are answered in the book of Morman but that question of what Indian tribe gave them the written word of Jesus's visit is still unanswered. So the Grinch lives in the Texas panhandle sweat staining as many white shirts as will come visit this heathen. LOL
Matthew
Matthew,
The idea of "Manifest Destiny" has always creeped me out in a big, big way. In fact, any time an entity takes action based on "that's what God intended" I'm pretty sure the baby Jesus cries.
Your refutation of the written proof Joseph Smith had is very convincing! You seem to have a lot of knowledge of that part of American History (regarding the Indians, I mean). I think I remember you referencing it a time or two before... is this an area of interest for you?
Simone,
Yes, you have found me out... American Indian history is a favorite of mine. I've read tons of books on most any subject dealing with the American Indians. Some of the non-fiction is good but somewhat one-sided in opinion. I've found quite a bit of starting points in historical fiction books. If I find an intresting person or battle or subject the internet helps me find more books on the subjects. For instance this summer I read a fiction book by Lucia Robson on the Apache brother and sister Lucero and Victorio. In the book, John Glanton was talked about which led me to find books on his horrible way of making a living. But the best is the American Indian authors writing today that give insight on the poverty and injustice that surrounds the Indians past and present. If your intrested in reading material on this subject sometime just holler and I'll give you a list of some authors to check out.
Matthew
Although this post was about poor Terry Schiavo, we have returned to Mitt the Mormon. Your comments make me reflect back to my Mother-in-Law (may I use the term Moon Bat on your web site...because she is totally out there....She had to ask me at the dinner table last year why I thought "Jimmy Carter was a horrible president...after all he is a Christian!"
So...If I had to vote for Bush, Mitt, or Carter....gimme a Mormon!!!
Hi there... sorry to dash out mid-conversation. Had a few days in Chicago with some girlfriends and then the some household chaos on my return.
Matthew, I'm in the mood for a good read but nothing particularly dark or political... got any recommendations? I meant to bum The Kite Runner from my mom this weekend but forgot to ask. I'm looking to line up a few books for the holidays. (Mom, if you see this don't let me forget again!)
E.E.Milton, no... I'm not taken to censoring comments... this isn't Redstate.com. :-) That's an interesting question regarding Carter, though, since I think of him as the most consistent president we've had with regard to his Christian beliefs. If someone was determined to have a Christian president in office then they should have been pleased with him. I think you've already established here that your priorities are based on other qualifications, which I can appreciate.
p.s. I want to say that, on further consideration, my recollection of Mormans being sort of intellectual (akin to Judaism) was probably skewed by my perceptions as a child (really my only experience with them to date). As I got to thinking about it, I remembered that it was ME asking all the questions, which led to lots of back and forth in a way that I thoroughly enjoyed but probably misinterpreted. Still, they seemed far less cultish than the Assembly of God church I attended briefly in high school. Or the Baptist church I attended briefly as a young adult (lordy, those SOBs were freakin' crazy!).
Hey Simone,
I laughed at your comments on the Baptists and Assembly of God churches. You are right on, those are some freaks. Down here in the ole bible belt, the Baptists have all the money so they run the town... political as well as religious doctrine wise. No bars in town, just 3 clubs that you have to have a membership to frequent. No beer sales on Sunday in city limits. Hell when I got here back in the late 70's there was a little thing called the " Blue Laws" where one couldn't buy anything but food product on Sundays.... no razor blades, toliet paper, shampoo.... anything unrelated to food. I've learned to live with the Baptists but those nondenominational churches like the Assembly of God.... now they are freaky. All that Holy Spirit taking over the body and rolling in the isles and speaking in tongues... a freak show. The first time I attended a service in one of these churches down here, after the service was over the minister was standing at the back door greeting the people coming out, asked me how I liked the service? I told him I needed to come earlier next week cause I must have came too late this week and missed when they were passing out the acid before service started, I never got invited back.
WOW, I'm trying to come up with a list of authors I read thats not to black a message. LOL I've found a book isn't good unless it touches a nerve and makes a person think most times. Richard Russo's new book ' Bridge of Sighs' is really good. Michael White's ' Soul Catcher' is another good book just released. If you want a American Indian author try Sherman Alexie... his new book 'Flight' is very thought provoking but a bit dark as is most his work. Right now I've been reading with great enjoyment Cormac McCarthy's work. His new book 'The Road' was really good and the one he wrote just before that 'No Country For Old Men' is now a movie coming out this fall. Try some of those along with the Kite Runner if you like my taste I'll send some more suggestions.
Matthew
Matthew,
Thanks for the book recs. It's not that I'm a shallow reader... normally I don't shy away from anything dark but lately I've made it a goal to try to infuse some lighter, more positive energy into my life.
I'll have to do a separate post on religion soon... this conversation has really got my mind spinning on the topic. Something tells me we all could spend a lot of time on it. (Or at least I could!)
:-)
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